Orange snubs Phorm, but Virgin Media and Carphone still on track
Although the customer tracking advertising platform Phorm received a blow this week when it was publicly snubbed by Orange, it can take solace that Virgin Media and Carphone Warehouse have assures Sam Knows they are keen to carry on evaluating the technology.
The advertising platform is no stranger to controversy. BT began a trial at the end of September after a sustained campaign by privacy protesters which Phorm has termed a “vocal minority”. When the campaigner’s file of alleged BT privacy breaches was dropped by City of London police this summer, the country’s largest ISP decided to carry on with trials. Rather than call the service Phorm, it has been labelled Webwise and comes complete with an anti-phishing tool for opt-in subscribers.
However, the furore over technology which tracks those who opt-in (as a number rather than with identifiable information) so they are served more relevant adverts has clearly put off at least Orange.
Paul-François Fournier, senior vice-president of Orange’s online advertising division, told the FT that there was “huge potential” for telecommunication companies to use customer data to target advertising but managing customers’ privacy was “critical”.
“Privacy is in our DNA, so we need to be honest and clear about what we are doing,” Mr Fournier said. “We have decided not to be in Phorm because of that . . . The way it was proposed, the privacy issue was too strong.”
Although Orange already uses behavioural targeting technology from a company called Revenue Science, it clearly felt that any deal with Phorm would link it to the furore surrounding its trials with BT. However, Phorm, for its part, has always pointed out that it is an opt-in service whereas behavioural targeting, deployed by many large web sites, tracks (anonymised) web users without their prior consent.
Despite this set back, Phorm has always been able to claim that Carphone Warehouse and Virgin Media were both evaluating its platform.
Virgin Media has countered any privacy concerns Orange is voicing by reiterating its intention to fully evaluate and hopefully trial the technology. However, a spokesman would not be drawn to comment on whether they were simply waiting to see if BT trials were successful before moving forward.
“Our consideration of Phorm has nothing to do with BT’s trials, the two are not linked,” he commented.
“No firm decision on whether we’ll deploy or test the technology has been made but we’re still interested in evaluating Phorm and if we do press ahead with trials we will be sure to let our subscribers know, the technology definitely needs to be transparently communicated to customers.”
On the question of why the ISP has yet to move beyond being interested in the technology, he claimed Virgin Media were more concerned with getting a right decision than a fast decision.
“It’s a very complex piece of technology and so we wouldn’t want to rush in to anything,” he said.
“It’s never actually been launched on a live network as a full service before and so we would want to make sure that we have examined it thoroughly first. We want to make sure we have done our full due diligence work before we would consider Phorm ready for a live launch.”
Similarly a spokesman for Carphone Warehouse assured that it was still evaluating the technology and has not been put off by Orange’s decision.
“We’re still doing our due diligence and examining Phorm and are hoping to utilise it at some stage but I can’t say when yet, there’s no firm date,” a spokesman commented.
“We have always insisted if we do use Phorm it would be as an opt-in and so we are satisfied that with all the campaigning and all the government and other bodies inspecting Phorm, it still comes out fine, so long as it’s opt-in.”
Tags: Carphone Warehouse, Phorm, Virgin Media
November 3rd, 2008 at 10:10 pm
Since I was co-opted into the 2006 Trial
With a Full Page Egg card Advert when I had all ADS Blocked & the Original PageSense Invitation Page & quite a lot more!
Then in 2007 with the Original BT Webwise Invitation Page plus other intrusions through to the end of that year.
Then various other very dubious events in 2008, I consider I have & may still be a Victim of an “illegal Wiretap” by BT & the Phorm Equipment!
However it will be almost impossible to serve me with their so called “Unavoidable WebPage” because I have been watching & learning what they have been doing throughout!
I of course will not tell you how I am avoiding the Web Browser Hijack, but if this System goes live after the Trial others will know!
I respect other peoples Privacy & I DO NOT EXPECT ANYONE BUSINESS OR OTHERWISE TO USERP THAT TRUST!
November 4th, 2008 at 11:22 am
Clearly you won’t tell anyone how you are avoiding their opt-in page because you are fabricating all of your story - if you had been watching and learnign then you would be aware that there were no opt-in pages for the first two trials.
how sad that you should post lies begetting your own insignifigance
November 4th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
To Samknows!
Please Send Copy of my Post to the ICO Office with my E-mail Address used to Login to this WebSite, this should confirm that I mean what I say & I have a Current Case Pending.
(I will give you the Case number if you require it via that E-mail Address!
November 4th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
(From SamKnows Team)
To Irate BT User (if indeed that is your real name..!).
That’s okay, we’re happy to take your word for it.
Interestingly, this very subject came up at the ISPA conference yesterday. We were kindly invited to attend because of our work on the Performance Network.
One of the speakers, Richard Clayton from Cambridge Uni, pointed out the potential illegality of the Phorm system.
Whilst we’re not experts in Privacy Laws, he seemed to know what he was talking about. He suggested that you have to seek permission from both sides of the exchange, the User (of course) AND the Web site. He suggested (quite logically) that Google may not be too happy with someone (else) intercepting their traffic with the intention of making money out of it! If correct, Phorm (or any similar system), would require not only the opt-in of every User, but also every Web site.
If correct that would surely make a tough job even harder!
Alex (SamKnowsMore ThanMe).
November 9th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Quote from the above article: “However, Phorm, for its part, has always pointed out that it is an opt-in service”
Unfortunately this is factually incorrect. Phorm has always done the opposite, saying that people can opt OUT. This was of course only LATER stated by the UK ICO to be unacceptable and the only permissible process will have to be opt IN.
In a debate that has been so technical in nature, with Phorm and BT seeking to obfuscate the issues, it is critical to report the detail accurately. However, that said, this is a well balanced report in my view.
My position on Phorm: Phorm must be stopped. Webwise is a BBC service for the benfit of childhood education and must not be allowed to be used as a name for a privacy limiting tool such as Phorm on BT’s network. A unique number to identify an individual is personally identifiable to that individual. If I lose privacy via Google then that is because I choose to use Google. I choose NOT to have my data intercepted by Phorm’s system on BT’s network. And anti-phishing is not something I need from Phorm or BT (especially when BT have updated Ts & Cs to state that they give no guarantees about the quality of the anti phishing system). I use the free Anti Phoshing built into the internet browser on my PC. When I decide “Not to take part” (BT’s words for “Opt Out”) then I want my data nowhere near the ex-spyware company system; not something they are saying they can do yet. That’s why I left BT and am now with an ISP who will not implement Phorm or BT Webwise.
The current Phorm BT Webwise discussion at BT is here: http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=6609&tstart=0
November 10th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
Since the BT Help Forum is no longer linked to Search Engines due to an ongoing Privacy/Security Issue; which is a real pain because BT Customers needing help with their Broadband Issues can now longer find any such links to get help from the regulars there.
The Previous & much longer BT Webwise discussion at BT is here:
http://beta.bt.com/bta/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=3152&tstart=30
@robinzaker
I’ve linked these comments to the ICO Case File myself!
November 18th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
The Above links to the beta bt forum no longer exist because BT have removed all posts concerning Phorrm/Webwise & will ban any BT Customer from posting if they even try to post or query about how the Phorm/Webwise system works & how it may affect their Privacy & or Website Security Settings!
This at the moment is in effect on both the Business Help Forum & the Customer Help Forum!